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CLOSE THE FLORIDA CONCEALED CARRY LOOPHOLE

House Holds hearing on Bill to Close Loophole that Allows Criminals to Carry Guns in PA Using Out-of-State Permits

UPPER DARBY, August 10 – Hearing testimony from Pennsylvania police chiefs, prosecutors, and county sheriffs, the Pennsylvania House Judiciary Committee held a public hearing today on a bill intended to close a dangerous loophole allowing criminals to carry guns in PA using out-of-state permits they obtained online or by mail.

The legislation, House Bill 2536, was introduced by Rep. Bryan Lentz, Dist. 161-Delaware County, in response to concerns from Pennsylvania police and law enforcement that as many as 3,100 Pennsylvania residents – some with lengthy criminal histories – have obtained concealed carry permits from the state of Florida, even after being denied a permit by PA authorities.

Committee members heard testimony from a leading Pennsylvania police chief, representiing a coalition of nearly 100 PA chiefs of police, who urged the state House to pass the bill, close the loophole, and not allow the legislation to be "clouded by negotiations or compromise" with the gun lobby or the NRA.

"This is a clear, straight-forward issue," said William Heim, Chief of Police in Reading, and chairman of the Pennsylvania Law Enforcement Policy Group, a coalition of nearly 100 PA police chiefs.  "We need to get out in front of this issue before a citizen or a police officer becomes the victim of a criminal with a concealed firearm."

The Judiciary Committee, meeting in the Upper Darby Municipal Building, heard testimony from police and law enforcement experts about actual cases in which Pennsylvania residents, some with criminal backgrounds, were turned down for PA permits to carry, later obtained permits from the Florida Department of Agriculture, and carried guns in Pennsylvania.

Lt. Lisa King, officer in charge of the Philadelphia Police Gun Permits Unit, testified about a series of cases in which Pennsylvania individuals with criminal convictions, denied or revoked the right to a PA permit to carry, were still able to obtain permits to carry from Florida.

One such case detailed by Lt. King involved an individual with six arrests, and two convictions -- including one for carrying a gun without a license -- who later obtained a Florida permit to carry in Pennsylvania.  Another case involved a man with a Florida permit who committed a gunpoint robbery in Philadelphia, was convicted and had his PA permit revoked.  Florida authorities, notified by Philadelphia police, have dragged their feet on taking action on the man's Florida permit, Lt. King testified.

"The Philadelphia Police Department believes that Pennsylvania residents should be subject to Pennsylvania law, administered by Pennsylvania law enforcement," Lt. King stated.  "This loophole underminds the authority of Pensylvania police -- putting officers at risk and eroding our ability to protect our communities."

Brian Grady, Deputy District Attorney for Special Operations, Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, said District Attorney Seth Williams supports HB 2536 and the office sees the loophole issue as a growing problem for law enforcement.  Grady emphasized that Pennsylvania county sheriffs and Philadelphia police, the law enforcement agents responsible for reviewing concealed carry permit applications in Pennsylvania, are the most appropriate officials to handle that important public safety function.

"There are plenty of places in Pennsylvania where the County Sheriff literally knows every person in town," Grady testified.  "He knows the guy who gets drunk seven days a week and the guy who beats up on his wife.  No one wants those guys carrying a concealed gun.  I don't think we can take too much caution when conducting an investigation whether or not to grant a permit to carry a concealed weapon -- with the potential to murder a person from a great distance."

The committee also received written testimony in support of the bill to close the concealed carry loophole from the Pennsylvania Chiefs of Police Association, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Pennsylvania Sheriffs Association, the Pennsylvania State Police, and the Western PA Chiefs of Police Association, among other law enforcement officials and agencies. 

CeaseFirePA executive director Joe Grace testified in support of the legislation, noting the overwhelming support from Pennsylvania law enforcement, and adding, "Pennsylvania residents should be subject to Pennsylvania law, and the judgment and discretion of our state’s law enforcement officers. Why would we want to take that authority away from Pennsylvania police - and outsource it to the Florida Department of Agriculture?"

On the other side of the issue were gun rights supporters, led by Kim Stolfer of the Allegheny County Sportsmen’s League, a pro-gun organization, who testified that they not only opposed HB 2536, they opposed the existence of any permitting process at all to determine who may carry a concealed gun in Pennsylvania.

Stolfer criticized advocates of HB 2536, including the police chiefs and law enforcement experts, for seeking "solutions in search of a problem." Stolfer specifically criticized Philadelphia police for placing what he called unfair burdens on permit applicants and for rejecting applicants in large numbers.

Despite those claims, Lt. King testified there are currently 23,000 active concealed carry permits in Philadelphia, and that in the past two years, more than 11,000 permits in total have been issued – at an approval rate of 92.5 percent.

Rep. Lentz, sponsor of the bill to close the loophole, said, "Today the law enforcement officials responsible for protecting our communities made it clear this loophole in state law needs to be closed as soon as possible. Their voices need to be heard by my colleagues in Harrisburg, as we work together to resolve this important public safety issue."　　

Another legislator on the committee who attended the hearing and peppered gun rights witnesses with questions was Rep. Josh Shapiro, 153rd District-Montgomery County.  After the hearing Rep. Shapiro said, "I believe the testimony from a number of police and law enforcement officials helped to debunk some of the myths surrounding this bill and issue.  I hope we can all agree that Pennsylvanians should be governed by Pennsylvania law, and we shouldn't be held hostage by the laws of another state.  We need to find common ground and pass this critical legislation to better protect Pennsylvania citizens and our law enforcement officers."

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